Jan. 4
By Anthony Campisi
For PlanPhilly
As shipments of Silverliner V regional rail car shells make it here from Korea next month, it will mark SEPTA’s first major rail procurement in nearly 30 years.
SEPTA is hoping that the new cars will herald a better rider experience and help meet its growing ridership needs, adding about 4,200 additional seats to the current regional rail capacity.
But rail advocates worry that SEPTA’s decision to sell off the older cars for scrap could put it in a bind if the Silverliner Vs have any manufacturing problems.
The authority has purchased 120 Silverliner Vs to replace 73 older Silverliner II and III cars, some of which date back to the 1960s. They point to brake problems that the Acela Express cars have experienced, which forced Amtrak to take them out of service in 2002 and 2005, and the fact that SEPTA has gone such a long time without designing and procuring a new class of rail cars.
Matt Mitchell of the Delaware Valley Association of Rail Passengers, the rail advocacy group, said that he would like SEPTA to keep the older cars on hand until the Silverliner Vs have a year’s worth of revenue service. That would give SEPTA enough time to discover any problems the cars might have without putting the authority in a position of having to lease cars from other transit agencies to avoid a severe capacity crunch.
Some of the same concerns were expressed by some members at a meeting of the regional rail subcommittee of the SEPTA Citizen’s Advisory Committee.
Though the CAC has not issued an official recommendation to SEPTA about the Silverliners, some members pointed out that Hyundai Rotem, the company that is manufacturing the Silverliners in a joint venture with Sojitz Corp., has never handled a rail project like this one before.
The Rotem venture was given the worst technical rating by SEPTA of all the bidders for the Silverliner V contract.
Because SEPTA doesn’t have the yard capacity to store the older Silverliners, Mitchell suggested they lease storage space from a railroad.
Though freight railroads do this quite often, Bob Parker, president and CEO of the East Penn Railroad, an area short-line railroad, said that his company has never stored passenger cars before. He said that doing that is “a different sort of animal” and that it would present different liability concerns.
For its part, SEPTA says that concerns about the Silverliner Vs are overblown.
David Casper, SEPTA manager for the Silverliner project, has told a meeting (http://planphilly.com/septa-issues-new-timeline-silverliner-v-cars) of the CAC rail subcommittee that it had addressed workmanship concerns seen in the Silverliner V mockup the authority displayed last year.
Luther Diggs, SEPTA’s assistant general manager for operations, also pointed out that SEPTA is planning on keeping some of the older cars on hand throughout the construction process. “We will have some overlap where we won’t just instantly take some things out of service,” he said.
SEPTA will still have 30 older cars on hand when all of the Silverliner Vs are in service, and because the rollout of the new cars will take more than a year, Diggs said that the authority will be able to identify any problems before they pose a threat to system capacity. He also said that SEPTA has been “testing and retesting” all of the equipment that will be going in the Silverliners to avoid any problems.
Though Rotem has never built regional rail cars before, Diggs said that the Silverliner Vs are being built out of equipment that’s “been around for years.”
“It’s not like we’re getting some strange vehicle from Korea,” he explained, adding that the Acelas were using “unproven technology.” Though Diggs expects that SEPTA will find minor issues with things like the software that will run the trains, he doesn’t expect there to be any major design flaws that could seriously slow rollout.
Contact the reporter at campisi.anthony@gmail.com
Comments
So far, the delivery schedule of the V is awful slow. Taking the Silverliner II and III's out of service by the end of 2011 appears like will be impossible even though they are required to be gone due to issues like no power doors and lack of P.A. system. Septa takes forever testing these and then never operates them on weekends and never during off peak trains on weekdays. What are you saving these for, aren't these to become the backbone of the system?
Another problem is that all the operators seem to need to take classes on operating the V and it seems like only a handful have been trained, which seems to restrict these to certain times and places according to the operators scheds.
As far as the roping off the first 3 rows so nobody can take advantage of the great view due to "hey, we might hit a vehicle or animal, and we think passengers can't handle it" stinks. What is to prevent an object from entering ANY window, side or roof area? You take a chance getting killed anywhere you sit, a comet could hit you at any time in seats other than in the first 3 rows.
As a former locomotive engineer I applaud septa's effort to purchase new equipment. It is always exciting when new stuff is coming! The decision to use partial width cabs that would allow passengers to sit in the front of the cars is disturbing. Any collision would put passengers in extreme danger in that location. I witness this first hand when my train colided with a truck and penetrated the cab, there is no level of protection to stop that. The double doors at the B end of the cars is wasteful. Instead use a single door and add seats in the extra space. The doors are ADA compliant so why use two, MTA has two side entrances on its new cars (M7 and M8) and those railroads carry a lot more passengers than septa. The destination signs on the front of the cars is unecssary. Passengers should concentrate their attention to the side of the cars, not the front. Windows in between the married pairs, spotting traps at low level platforms and operating the traps at all low level stops( you can't operate these cars with the traps down and doors open) are other issues I see as problems with the new cars. I would have rather have septa tag 120 cars to the new M8 order...
As to what emecee said above about the double deckers: Yes they should invest in those ,at least for someof the routes, Personally, i do not like these new SL V's. Ugly as sin...nah joke looks cool, i just don't trust foreign corporations ,especially when said company never built trains before and really, c'mon now septa If i were to have any thing built, i'd stick with U.S. Made equipement by the companies that provided the previous stock. I personally like the(St.Louis car Works) SL 2,3, and 4's. Heck i'd just have the digital features and upgrades(safety features) added to the classic designs.They are a favorite amongst train buffs here in Philly. And more recognizable as a True loved Classic of the rails like the Old Pennsy MP-54's and Reading Blueliners. Yes, there are train fans (like myself) whom grew up in and around philly who loved to watch the trains depart and arrive, fly right by ,putting a smile on kids faces ( i see it today too). Perhaps Septa could keep a number of them(a pair each version) after the V's take over completely ???. Would be great for special events and such. I had (silly enough ) shed a tear when i heard that some were sold to a Crash test company out west some time ago and then found a video of them getting crushed in a crash test.Oh well, if Septa must then they must. I'm just sad at the fact that the classics from my childhood will soon be no more.Sigh
SEPTA should keep the old regional rail cars, and provide 15 minute or better regional rail service on key lines, during most time periods.
In response to one remark, I strongly believe that the cars that are slated to be retired should be kept on hand until the Silverliner V's have had EXACTLY 12 months of revenue service. That way, if a problem with the newer cars is reported if the cars have been in revenue service for, say six months, then the Silverliner IIs and IIIs can be placed in service while the problem with the Vs is inspected and corrected. That should save SEPTA a good amount of money if the IIs and IIIs are kept on hand rather than lease cars from another property. That is a good reason to keep the IIs and IIIs on hand until the Silverliner Vs have been in revenue service for 12 months.
I was disappointed to see SEPTA had not bought the double-decker cars (Bombardier MLV) like NJ Transit got last year. More seats in fewer cars and they are built in North America. I guess Hundai was cheaper (which is the only reason anybody gets a Hundai) but often going for the low-bid is false economy. I look forward to comparing the two types of cars next time I take the SEPTA/NJT connection to New York. But I suspect that once again, I will see NJT as a plus for New Jersey (along with no State Stores, better roads and jug handles instead of left turns).
Regional rail cars haven't been designed and built in this country since the 1970's? Here's an idea. Why not have all the regional rail agencies in the US (e.g. MTA, SEPTA, etc.) come together to establish a design and manufacturing facility in the US so that the equipment can be "Made in USA" from start to finish? Why do car bodies have to be designed and partially assembled overseas. Certainly there is design talent and manufacturing and production work forces in this country that could start today's answer to the demise of Budd Co., American Car and Foundry Company, St. Louis Car Company, Pressed Steel Car Manufacturing Company and others that have long been forgotten. What is happening now is nothing short of shameful.
I viewed the new Silverliner V cars on display at Suburban Station last evening. One uniformed SEPTA conductor who was there at the time commented, "These cars will be a disaster." He did not explain why he felt that way. The cars are attractive and seem to provide a lot of amenities. However, unlike the latest New Jersey Transit cars, they lack toilets and still retain those "hated" three person seats.
While meetng current government safety standards for railway cars, these vehicles more closely resemble rapdid transit cars than traditional commuter cars. However, the fares are somewhat higher than those charged on rapid transit systems.
I really feel that the three person seats should be eliminated from the cars currently under construction.
Hmmm.. I suppose it could be said there was perhaps some valid points about SEPTA sort of taking something of a wait and see style approach of sorts even after putting the new SL-V cars into service by holding onto the old SL II and II cars just a tiny bit longer until the new cars have proven themselves worthy successors to the SL IV rolling stock.
Still though, I suspect SEPTA wouldn't want to shell out the money to do that sort of thing. After all, there has been times SEPTA has demonstrated their lack of desire to reinvest in new technology/equipment at times... such as the case with SEPTA merely refurbishing the former PTC owned PCC trolley cars which dated originally back to the 1940's.
Some said that was done for nostalgia/historical sake. But again, the SEPTA I know (and ride somewhat regularly) has been increasingly guilty of cutting corners.
Plus, last I heard, SEPTA said it was planning to do much the same with It's Kawasaki brand Braod St. subway (Orange line) subway car fleet which dates back to the mid 80's (Retro fitting them with up to date technology rather than securing a contract with a company to have all new subway cars built).
Please don't get me wrong though, I DO look forward immensely to taking a ride on these new Silverliner V cars when they're put into service. All just a matter of time, and me trying to come up with somewhere I'd want to go as a good excuse to get aboard one of these shiny new puppies. :)
F Dvarp and Matthew Mitchell. He thinks he's making a difference when all he needs to do is shut his mouth, be patient, and wait for the new cars to arrive. When they do, get on board, pay your fare, and be happy you have a ride. SEPTA, unlike dvarp and Matt Mitchell, knows what they are doing. And so does Rotem.
Nice Ride!
I think when federal and state agencies put out contracts, they should be awarded by "BEST VALUE" and not just the lowest bidder.
I hate to sound negative about foreign made products, but how many 20 year old Toyota Pickup trucks do you see on the road Vs a 20 year old Ford F150 or Chevy Silverado? How many 40-50 year old John Deere and Catepillar tractors are still working outside earning their keep compared to a Komatsu or Kuboda? Take note next time you are on an interstate and pass an old Peterbilt or Mack truck, then look for old an Isuzu or Toyota still on the highway pulling a trailer after 15 or 20 years of hard work, weather, and road salt.
Funny thing, the other night on a Silverliner V trip we crossed over tracks between Suburban Station and 30th Street at a crossover switch. As we were switching tracks, a train comming towards us on the same track crossed over too and a lady on her cell phone screamed at the top of her lungs in the quiet car because she thought the 2 trains were going to crash at the switches.
If you're implying that a Ford anything lasts longer than a Toyota, I have to wonder if you've ever owned either.